Board Member of Indonesia’s BRIN: Indonesia Prioritises Four Key Areas for Future Cooperation with China
Editor’s Note: Against the backdrop of the digital wave, how can China‑Indonesia science and technology cooperation go deeper and deliver tangible outcomes? China‑ASEAN Observation (COA) conducted an exclusive interview with Prof. Dr. Ir. Marsudi Wahyu Kisworo, IPU, Member of the Board of Governors, National Research and Innovation Agency of Indonesia (BRIN). As he put it, “Technology must serve humanity, not replace humanity.” He outlined four priority areas where Indonesia looks forward to working hand‑in‑hand with China: food sovereignty, health, clean energy and climate change.
China-ASEAN Observation (COA): Digital‑driven exchanges between China and Indonesia have grown ever‑closer. Some describe digital technology as acting as a “bridge”. Do you share this view?
Marsudi Wahyu Kisworo: Let me first define what a digital bridge is. In my opinion, a digital bridge is not just information technology. It is something that connects people, minds, and also ideas. Information technology is just a means or a way where we can share all this knowledge. It is more than just IT things; it is more on how we connect researchers, or we connect knowledge, or we connect our nations together using telecommunication or digital tools. So it is very important.
We know that IT now is becoming part of our daily life. I think we cannot live without IT. In the past, you just used IT for communication. But now all of our daily life is immersed immensely into IT. For instance, the use of AI, the use of digital payment systems, the use of e‑commerce are already in our daily life. So in the future, digital technology will be very important.
China-ASEAN Observation (COA): What has been the most notable shift in China-Indonesia scientific and technological cooperation in recent years?
Marsudi Wahyu Kisworo: Actually, we learn a lot from China. Indonesia and China are both very large countries. We are densely populated. China has more than one billion people, while Indonesia has nearly 300 million, and our labour force is very large. You can imagine how rapidly unemployment would rise in our country if digital technologies such as AI and robotics were to replace workers.
From China, we learned that even when you use AI and robotics, you can still manage the unemployment rate. You just don’t replace human labour by using robots. That is why we want to learn that from China: how we can balance between the advances of technology, AI, and robotics, and also human beings.
In our principle, technology must be for human beings. Technology is for humanity. That is the description that we use in Indonesia. Technology must serve humanity, not replace humanity.
China-ASEAN Observation (COA): Looking ahead, in which fields do you think China and Indonesia are most likely to establish long‑term and sustainable innovation cooperation?
Marsudi Wahyu Kisworo: There are a lot of things. In Indonesia, we have four big concerns for the future.
First is food sovereignty. We have to learn how China can provide food for everyone. More than 90 percent of Indonesia’s food is imported. Yet Indonesian land is very fertile; we can provide food by ourselves. That is one thing we would like to learn from China: how we can use technology, including information technology or digital technology in farming. For instance, using technology for creating new seeds, new genomes, and new things that can increase our food supply.
Second is health. Indonesia is highly populated and a tropical country where diseases can easily spread. In the future, because of climate change, it is predicted there will be new diseases and other disasters whose impacts could be far‑reaching. So we have to prepare for contingencies in advance. That is why we want to learn about health from China.
Indonesia is very rich in biodiversity. We have many plants that can become medicine. China has a long history of using herbs as medicine, so we want to learn and cooperate in that area.
Third is clean energy. China has achieved continuous reductions in carbon dioxide emission intensity. We want to learn how we can achieve the energy transition using green energy. Indonesia is also endowed with rich renewable energy sources such as geothermal and solar energy. However, we are still in the early stages of deploying these to replace coal. In the future, we must not burn coal and oil to generate energy, because that creates pollution.
Fourth is climate change. Indonesia consists of more than 13 000 islands. It sits on the equator and ranks among countries most affected by climate change. You can imagine, if global temperature increases by one degree, the sea level will rise more than one metre, and thousands of our islands may be submerged. So we hope to cooperate with China on how we can solve this climate problem.
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